Bad Local HabitsI love China, and I love Chinese culture, but there are few things that bother me here. Like spitting Like peeing in public Like ignoring lines Like getting drunk and pretending to want to fight Like putting vegetables from the restaurant on the ground Stuff like that makes me mad. |
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Comments
Typically ignorant
I have to say Jimmy, you are a typically ignorant foreigner. It's fine for you to talk about all of the problems here. You can add in that people don't wear shirt in restaurants and a few others, but who are you to judge. We Chinese look at your country and see lots of problems that we could point out.
Like the fact that you produce 5 times as much pollution per person and lecture China about it
Like Jerry Springer being the most popular show
Like Paris Hilton being the most interesting person in your country
Like people not speaking any other languages and complaining about the accents of immigrants
Like your president being a war criminal.
Before you start criticizing China maybe you should look at your own country!!
Jerry Springer
Is Jerry Springer still on the air??
I think he was planning to run for Senate a while ago. He used to be a mayor somewhere!
Funny hey?
Yeah Jerry Springer was a mayor somewhere ha ahaha Gotta laugh at how that's gotta work? Only in the USA as they say.
Hey Local Guy - I don't know if he was having a jab at Chinese life - maybe just pointing out cultural differences (what each of us is used to).
Oh if you want to start up a Paris Hilton hate blog, i'm all for it too :)
And Yeah - I don't get the Jerry Springer thing either - can't watch it - but appreciate the guy - because in a personal interview he said that he just started a show and the crazies of USA just took over - and if that's the market, then supply for the demand - and funny they are!!!! But not my style to waste time over (probably the same league as US wrestling)
I'm aussie and we have our own share of weird stuff - ha ahaha that's for sure.
And if your remarks are intended to be insulting - you'll probably freak when you learn a lot of gweilos (white foreigners) think and agree about the same stuff of what you said - so I guess its not really an insult then.
Enjoy and keep smiling (good Jab about the Bush man too)
Salsa
Chinese think so too!
But it's the same thing with us Chinese! When I see people spitting in restaurants it makes me want to yell at them too! There is this idea that all Chinese are like this among foreigners and it makes me mad. Not all Americans live in trailer parks, and you would be mad if I said they did (maybe not because you are Australian, but you understand...)
When people are guests in your country and insult you, of course you will not be happy. I'm tired of foreigners coming here and telling me what's wrong with my country even though they don't post about things their own country!!
I'm ignorant?
I don't understand? I'm ignorant because I don't like people to spit everywhere? I know other countries have problems too, and just because I said something bad about the hygiene habits of some people doesn't make me stupid.
And I could have mentioned Chinese foreign policy like you did American, but I decided not to...
Spitting
I can live with the pushing, cutting in line, lying, and cheating, but the loud hocking and spitting has to go. It drives me insane and I doubt I'll ever get used to it.
Everyone else is running for president, why not Springer also? I think his big bald bouncer ended up getting a TV show when Jerry left.
I don't actually mind the
I don't actually mind the spitting. Shitting in the street bugs me, but only as a health hazard. What bugs me is people who assume that foreigners are idiots. I'll happily haggle with a street vendor, but trying to get hundreds of yuan for the most basic things? That's just insulting.
That and jumping ahead in line when one's clearly established. If it's a free for all, fair game, but if everyone else is waiting in line then wait your turn. I once had a guy shove me out of line in a bank. Only problem was, I was on crutches with a broken leg at the time. C'mon.
Don't get me wrong, America's got more than its' share of problems. I chose to move to China, didn't I?
Can't fault
I know what you're saying about the prices, but I can't fault some of the guys for trying to overcharge. Several years I was in the Beijing Silk market and heard a guy ask 800 yuan for a knock-off watch. The customer, a German guy, immediately agreed, nearly causing me whiplash.
Why not try right?
Wha!?
Who craps on the street?? What city do you live in? Where I live they go to stinky public toilets!
Wake up
LocalGuy's attitude just pointed out another typical chinese thing that i think everybody hates: how stubborn or proud chinese people can be. You're in a link called BAD LOCAL HABITS. Just learn to take it and share ideas.
Beijing
Kids take craps or pee on the streets in Beijing. I see it almost everyday. Parents just put a newspaper on the floor and let the kids take a crap in front of everybody... and they always leave it there in the middle of the pavement, so if youre walking around Beijing and you find yourself a little chocolate surprise on the street, you know how it got there.
new blogger to the site
The points Jimmyjim made are certainly valid, with many such instances happening across China, although improvements have happened in some of the bigger more international cities. Many foreigners do come to China and they do criticise a lot of things, but then many do try to at least make the criticism constructive. They try to make the point that heh this is bad, but why not do this... Many Chinese see the problems but say or do nothing. Sometimes if you want something to change you have to raise the proverbial stink, otherwise nothing will happen. Sure there were things JimmyJim didn't like but his overall impressions was that he liked the country, the people and the culture. Hardly all negative
From localguy's perspective he is right in that nobody in any country likes foreigners to come in and complain. but as Baimawangzi stated this is a blog talking about some bad local habits in China, I am sure if he goes to investigate blogs in Europe or the US there will be similar local blogs complaining about similar problems there, from the government, to pollution, to drunken louts.
So when people do complain about China, understand why they think like that, express the fact that you also agree with them, but that it is not everyone who does this. Don't do the typical Chinese response of talking about everything else wrong elsewhere in the world, because you feel upset that china is not so perfect as you want. If you don't like foreigners complaining about how bad something is then start doing somethign about it yourselves. That wil at least stop them complaining about that issue....
A little yes, a little no
It is true that people will complain in many places about problems. In US there are problems and foreigners may complain too. In China foreigners often seem separate from Chinese and so when they say bad things it makes it seem worse. Foreigners often spend time only with foreigners and it can feel like they believe they are superior. When people say "Chinese spit and are dirty etc" I get angry because of this.
We have a proud and long culture. People come here and sometimes only look at our problems. We have problems, but you seldom hear people post about the great things in China. Maybe in articles, but forums and blogs like to be negative and so it seems this is the most common view.
Don't be so sensitive about
Don't be so sensitive about that. Yourself know such things happen all the time. However, the good news is young people seem to be better.
Interesting thread
This is a highly interesting thread, especially with LocalGuy's comments.
We agree that China has a long history and that is something to be proud of, but the unfortunate thing is that there isn't much left of it. Where are all the ancient temples? Where is fengshui? We hear about this ancient culture all the time, but we haven't found it yet.
Also, when talking about culture, you can't keep looking back, you have to look forward too. Culture is not just the past, culture is also people's habits. In Holland, people eat mayonnaise on their french fries. For many people, this is totally disgusting, but it's the local habit, the local culture. In China, the local culture seems to be to spit everywhere, have your kids shit on the streets, smoke in elevators, jump lines, litter constantly, drive like maniacs, unhygienically share dishes, ignore salutations (even in Chinese), etc.
The main issue is that foreigners aren't used to this and consider it uncivilised. There appears to be no sense of community. If you cross the street, cars treat you like a stray dog. On a zebra crossing, the pedestrian has right of way. But in China, the biggest has the right of way.
The spitting and shitting spreads diseases. Sharing dishes can possble spread Hepatitis B. People litter all the time, where is the sense of keeping your community clean? Today, we handed an ashtray to smokers next to us and they still put their cigarette buds out on the floor!! The floor!! Where people walk!! Someone needs to clean up after children, but also after a Chinese dinner table. The cigarette buds, bones, sunflower seeds are everywhere.
If you realize your country has flaws, why are you so proud of it? You will never be able to improve if you think it's perfect now. We are proud of our home countries as well, but we realize our habits may seem flawed in the eyes of foreigners.
As you may have noticed, nobody has complained about another obvious aspect of Chinese culture: burping at the table. This is a big no out West, but accepted here. Since this has no health risks for others, nobody complains. As foreigners, we think it's strange, but accept it as part of the culture. We go up in arms, when we see something that threatens us, that threatens our health or the community.
LocalGuy, If only you had
LocalGuy,
If only you had left China at some point in your life, you would certainly realize what a shithole you live in. I've been to over 30 countries and never encountered half of the disgusting habits and rude behavior that I see here in half a day.
Your country has a long history, but so what? Why does that matter for anything? You people still act like it's 3000 years ago, before toilets were invented. Seriously, what have you people accomplished since paper? You want to hear the true answer to this question? NOTHING.
Nice job on bashing the American government. Maybe if your government allowed you to read accurate news stories, you would know more about your own country's massive problems. America's certainly not perfect (I'm not even American, by the way), but everyday tens of thousands of people risk their lives to move there. I don't see anyone jumping to get into this stinkhole.
Another thing, bash the Japanese all you want, but the truth is that they kick your ass at everything and you people are a bunch of jealous losers.
Wow
That might be the most ignorant post I've ever read. To start with, do you think Chinese people on this ENGLISH website don't read foreign news? Think about it. In additional, his English is pretty good so I'd guess he studied or lived abraod. Aside from that China's economy is growing at 10% a year while no western country ever grows at half that. You think no one is rushing to move here? Ever notice how many foreigners live in China? Know how many were here 10 years ago? Ever check the number of Chinese students who return home after graduation now compared with 10 years ago.
You've "been" to 30 countries? Did you ever live in any of them? Did you ever learn another langauge? And if so how do you still know nothing? "Jealous" of the Japanese? That's like saying the Jews are jealous of the Nazis. You should learn a little history before you spread the stereotype of the ugly American.
Hey buddy, read my post. I
Hey buddy, read my post. I said that I wasn't American. Nice job on the ad hominems.
Try logging in to a news story about any sensitive government issue. I guarantee you're gonna get a "Page could not load" message. I read the news all the time, and constantly find myself blocked from stories, many of which have nothing to do with China. Try going to wikipedia and reading about a few hot issues. Try going to BBC while you're at it. For this reason I think our LocalGuy character is totally ignorant of major political events, so he decides to point a finger at America in a pathetic attempt to defend his own people's many disgusting habits.
China grows at about 10%, yeah. Go take any econ class and you'll see why. It's called the law of diminishing returns, and it has nothing to do with a Chinese economic superiority. All developing countries grow at rates about that fast. Japan during the 70's, Singapore during the 80's, SE Asia during the 90's, etc etc. And guess what? They've all slowed down massively as they've developed. The economic growth in China right now is certainly not unprecedented, and most serious economists think it's headed for a brick wall in the next few years.
I've been in China, and haven't met one foreigner who isn't over here temporarily for either an adventure of sorts, or their job at home requires it. Nobody is here to settle down, and nobody is here to start a new life entirely. Nobody is clamoring to become a citisen, which is the key difference between their immigration and America's.
If anyone attempts to refute this, please try and cite one invention/innovation to come out of China in the last 500 years. These people have absolutely nothing to be proud of.
It is interesting
Thank you to the person who defended me, but there is no need.
"Anonymous" person, who hides behind the mask of the internet, I can tell you that I am not the ignorant Chinese that you have been indocrinated to believe about. I went to high school and university in America, and love the country very much. You may not realize this, but it is most Chinese who love America. Yet we differentiate government from the people. The idea of upward mobility is what brings people to America, and now it is what brings students back to their home country.
You foolishly believe that we Chinese are naive and know nothing about our past or the present situation in the world. On the contrary, it is true there are peasants who know little, but we are of the new middle class. I read articles from every place everyday. You think that we cannot get the BBC, and yet I use proxies to read it while you do not.
It interests me that you think that criticizing the American president is saying that America is bad. It explains why you think that a corrupt government here means that Chinese people are not innovative and have nothing to offer.
Chinese films can be thought of as creative and innovative, even as their are restictions on them. If you look you will find that it is of great quality. Perhaps you only know Jackie Chan. Chinese art is now the most popular in the world, but perhaps you do not go to art studios.
China has real problems and I have not to ignore that. There are also problems elsewhere and people should look at their own problems first. That is what I do.
And what great country are you from my foreign friend?
Great Britain that has torn apart the middle East? Australia that holds down its indigenous people? I have an interest in this blameless nation.
To the non-American
"The economic growth in China right now is certainly not unprecedented, and most serious economists think it's headed for a brick wall in the next few years"
-anonymous August 8
"China is about to adopt its 11th five-year plan, setting the stage for the continuation of probably the most remarkable economic transformation in history, while improving the wellbeing of almost a quarter of the world's population. Never before has the world seen such sustained growth; never before has there been so much poverty reduction." -Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Prize of Economics recipient, April 13, 2006 in the Guardian
Remember Alan Greenspan?
Remember Alan Greenspan? Check up his very recent comments about Chinese economic growth and its unsustainability. He, and dozens of others would completely disagree with Mr. Stiglitz.
Chinese growth is based almost entirely on the migrations from the countryside to the city and the ability to produce cheap goods, not on their ability to innovate (which the culture has a mental block against doing). The economy is still half the size of Japan's and a fifth the size of the USA or EU. The Chinese growth is a great "transformation" only when compared to the what the economy was 30 years ago.
Keep the ad hominem attacks
Keep the ad hominem attacks coming, my friend. Ｉ ｌｏｖｅ ｉｔ， ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ ａll it does is prove that you have no idea how to argue or think logically, just like all of your fellow countrymen.
I'm hiding behind the internet, of course. And so are you. You have not revealed your identity. All I know is that you are one of the 1.4 billion "LocalGuys" in China. I tell Chinese people everyday what a dump they live in everyday, and offend them constantly。 Do I care? Well, not really. I'd rather them see the truth than perpetuate the brainwashing they have heard everyday about why the Middle Country is so much better than the barbarous countries elsewhere and how China has been so mistreated by the 'foreign devils.'
I am totally aware of the ignorance that pervades this society, as I am teaching English here and know for fact that none of my students have a clue about China's true past.
I don't equate criticism of the American president with a criticism of America. Stop putting words in my mouth. I ｃｒｉｔｉｃｉｚｅ ｔｈｅ ｐｒｅｓｉｄｅｎｔ ｃｏｎｓｔａｎｔｌｙ， ｂｕｔ Ｉ ｄｏ ｎｏｔ ｄｏ ｓｏ ａｓ ａ ｍｅａｎｓ ｏｆ ｄｅｆｅｎｄｉｎｇ ｍｙ ｏｗｎ ｃｏｕｎｔｒｙ （Ｃａｎａｄａ＇ｓ）ｍａｎｙ ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ， ｌｉｋｅ ｙｏｕ ｄｏ． Ａｎｄ， ｅｖｅｎ ｉｆ Ｉ ｄｉｄ ｄｏ ｔｈｉｓ， ｉｔ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｈａｖｅ ｎｏｔｈｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｄｏ ｗｉｔｈ ｍｙ ｓｔａｔｅｍｅｎｔ ｔｈａｔ Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ ａｒｅ ｎｏｔ ｉｎｎｏｖａｔｉｖｅ ａｎｄ ｈａｖｅｎ＇ｔｐｒｏｄｕｃｅｄ ａｎｙｔｈｉｎｇ ｗｏｒｔｈｗｈｉｌｅ ｆｏｒ ａ ｌｏｎｇ ｔｉｍｅ． Ｔｈａｔ＇ｓａ ｆａｃｔ． Ｄｅａｌ ｗｉｔｈ ｉｔ．
Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ ａｒｔ ｉｓ ｆａｍｏｕｓ？ Ｐｌｅａｓｅ．
Ｐｌｅａｓｅ ｎａｍｅ ｏｎｅ Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ ｉｎｎｏｖａｔｉｏｎ ｆｏｒ ｔｈｅ ｐａｓｔ ５００ ｙｅａｒｓ． Ｃａｎ ｙｏｕ？
Not surprising
Guess I'm jumping in a little late in this discussion. So let me give a few thoughts.
It seems a little unfair to attack an entire people. China was long an innovative country and then went through a long down period that started to end in 1979 with Deng's 改革开放policy. In the beginning things were mostly developing as a result of manual labor and low-end technology products, but times have changed. Intel didn't invest nearly two billion dollars in China for its manual labor, it was its engineers.
This may come off as a personal attack, but I assume that it is not intended to be, but rather a legitimate point. Many of the ideas that you aspouse are similar to ideas that I had before I arrived here. Much of it was based on preconceived notions. When I became friends with more Chinese people, and especially speaking to them in their own language where it is easier for them to express their ideas, there is a much wider wealth of knowledge and much more creativeness than I might have guessed. While most young people don't know about 1989, they all know about the Cultural Revolution, even if they don't eagerly talk about it. Please do not get offended, but can I ask how long you have been here?
To me the tone of what you are saying is offensive. It throws a hugely diverse group of people in the same boat without much careful analysis (I cannot speak for how much in-country experience you have). It is dangerous to write off an entire country so easily. What has Canada ever invented？ Or Belgium? Does this mean that the people who live there are simple-minded idiots? I certainly would not make that case. Remember, Chinese scientists developed nuclear weapons in the 1960s, years before all but two countries, and is one of only three to send a man into space. To argue that there has been limited scientific development does not necessarily match the reality.
Just saying
My original point was that things are not that sanitary here and people like to get drunk and fight. Waiting for someone to contradict me...
The dilemma a Westerner faces
Essentially, any Chinese person who is reading this is an enlightened individual. He or she has taken the trouble to find out what foreigners think and is reading a forum in a foreign language. It's more than most of us Westerners can do and I commend all of you for it, I really do.
Now I have a few comments to make. As a British person, I am quite happy to admit that my ex-Prime Minister is quite possibly a "war criminal" and I could talk all day about the merits and demerits of the UK as a whole. I marched against the war and I had the right to do so unmolested, even if my action didn't amount to much. So don't get overly defensive when we criticize your country. I recognise that it's the Chinese way to focus more on the good, there's much to be said for this, although I believe this is problematic when it leads to the suppression of information.
The trouble I've found teaching in a small town in China is the lack of knowledge the students have. Many know very little that is negative about China and live in a childlike comfort zone of blissful ignorance. And what is more, I don't see much genuine curiosity to know the real truth about anything. They are in a kind of dream, where the Olympic games and the deliciousness of dumplings holds greater sway than climate change or human rights. This is understandable. One can hardly forcefeed one's culture down a person's throat but one is certainly in danger of being misunderstood when giving information solicited from one. I don't want to preach about anything but I am continually beset by instances where I know the students are ignorant about certain things. In this town Chairman Mao is the definition of a hero. If I had been brought up in this town I might well be the same, so I have to bite my tongue. It takes a better man than I to know how to deal with this phenomenon. Essentially, this problem is rife in the West too. There are plenty of people content to live in their little bubble and they should know better. Still, it's hard to be honest in a town like this.
Essentially, in China there appears to to be the following consensus. We are 5000 years old. The West don't understand us. They wronged us in the past. We are the world's greatest civilization and we will rightfully assume that mantle once more.
So far as the first point goes, if being an old culture somehow imbues the man in the street with a deeper innate wisdom than an American, say, I've yet to see it. If it means you value the sanctity of an animal's life, I've yet to see it. If it means you have lots of old buildings everywhere, I've yet to see them. If it means you are leaders in science and technology or pop music, I big to differ.
Second point. It's true we don't understand you and I feel we can learn alot.
Third, I don't agree with nationalism. I think it's all too often ugly.
It's wearing me out and I think I'm going to work in a European country.
LocalGuy's note about
LocalGuy's note about Americans polluting 5 times the amount that Chinese people do, per person, is true but misleading. America and China pollute about equal amounts, but China's GDP is one-sixth the size of China's. Logically, China should be producing one-sixth the pollution, right? Economic activity=pollution. So, when America lectures China about pollution, they're right. There is no excuse for it being so high, given the relatively small size of the economy. China's pollution laws are as good as any other country's...The problem is in corrupt officials taking bribes and poor law enforcement. I've lived in America my whole life, before coming to China, and I am blown away by the smog and total indifference to it.
Oh, and back to what the thread was started about....Chinese people do have disgusting habits that could very easily be ended if the people cared enough. Spitting, pissing in the streets, etc..You know them all. I've found that most people here are aware that what they're doing is wrong, but simply do not care for some reason. I think it all goes back to the ethical system here, which pretty much holds that everthing is OK as long as you don't get in trouble for it.
What's worse, in my view, is the habit of dishonesty and cheating. Before giving my final exam to my students, I was lectured by the administration about how terrible cheating is and how I need to make sure that students don't cheat. I ended up catching four of them red-handed cheating on the exam and gave them all zeros, then told the administration. What did they do? Nothing. All the students passed the class and got their diplomas. I know this problem is very widespread in this country, from what other teachers have told me.
fair point
It's a fair point about the sheltered view that students have. However that is a fairly recent development, primarily this generation. While older generations did get a skewed view of history, in terms of dealing with the difficulties of life, it is definitely fair to say that before the 1980s young people saw a tremendous amount of hardship. Now? Things are pretty easy for kids making them a little weird when they get older. It's easy to talk about the little emperor idea, but this is what it looks like in practice.
Benny
Pollution Point
The argument seems a little peculiar to me about pollution.
True China pollutes far too much in general, and per unit of output, but why is the population argument not valid. It has been well documented that the US bears a large responsibility for the environmental woes of the world.
There are lots of arguments that could be made for the US lecturing China on the pollution, but don't they make it really easy to counter when they haven't bothered to update fuel standard since the 70s? When they don't bother to join the Kyoto protocol, are bargain make it more palatable?
It seems to me like the US could have a huge influence over China's environmental policy--if they bothered to clean up their own act. It is critical to take the moral high ground and demonstrate an ability to take action first. This is the ideal way to bring other countries along with you.
I Have To Laugh =)
People get so worked up and serious in forums. Not to mention venturing completely off the original purpose of this post, you people have managed to turn it into a politically motivated environmental mud slinging match.
Accept the truth, no matter which country you live in there are certain customs that are going to be unappealing to those not native to the culture. I think JimyJim was merely pointing out this fact in an attempt to vent. In addition, some of you pretentious 'anonymous,' decided that this was a perfect opportunity to tell everyone how 'worldly' you are.
You're lame.
Also accept the fact that no country in this world is a non-pollutant and we as humans are beginning to clean up our act. How about praising our, albeit, slow, but sure progress?
And let’s everyone try to lighten up and have a laugh at our own disgusting behavior, no matter what nationality you are?
=)
Whatever you say
I don't know if that picture is really of you or not, but the fact that you'd put a hot pic in your profile means my mind is open to your thoughts.
You're not actually an old dude, "To Catch a Predator"-Style, are you? That would be crushing
???
I'm confused as to why my picture has anything to do with how seriously people take my thoughts.
But to answer your question: No, I'm not an "old dude."
And JimmyJim, I agree with you about the spitting-the hocking noise is especially nauseating (but many people do that here in the States). However, I've never witnessed the drunken fighting from a Chinese. However, I have come to expect it here in the US. I suppose I foolishly believed they were better disciplined in regards to alcohol than Westerners. I guess no matter what nationality you are, you're bound to have aggressive alcoholics!
=)
Ignore the dummies
You need not pay attention to people who only focus on your picture. Surely he is an ignorant foreigner anyway ;-)
Wang Wei
joke
Just want to make sure everyone knows that was a joke.
o o
.
0
WW
Drinkin'n Fightin
Well, there is a lot of drunken fighting in China, but it seems a bit different than other places to be honest. In other places you would probably have big dumb athlete types who go to the bar looking for fights.
I don't even know how to describe it in China. You've probably seen that when men get to the baijiu, they really dig in and get wrecked. It is normally at this point that the start staggering around yelling at each other. Fights break out frequently, especially in Sichuan and places like that. People often get beaten up pretty badly. It's pretty nasty.
Benny
"My original point was that
"My original point was that things are not that sanitary here and people like to get drunk and fight."
Sounds like Birmingham (England AND Alabama!) ;)
By the way...for whatever
By the way...for whatever reason I'm not able to log in with my "Avatar"---ever. That could well be why so many of us here "seem" to be 'Anonymous.'
"I agree with you about the
"I agree with you about the spitting-the hocking noise is especially nauseating (but many people do that here in the States)."
Bulls--t. Total bulls--t. That is simply. not. true.
I'll agree it's not as
I'll agree it's not as common in the States but it does happen. In fact I was at the movies the other day and a young female was in the bathroom doing it. Not to mention, I work in a pub where I see men casually spit on the ground when they think no one is watching.
So, no sir, it is NOT bull. Pay attention. Maybe not as common where you live but it does occur.
Or were you saying you are not particularly grossed out by the hocking; that you rather enjoy it? =)
Also, why not try and keep your reponses mature? You're word choice speaks volumes about your character.
--At least it is not common to pass gas loudly in public in China. That is a habit I don't think I could ever get used to!
Yes, I have no character
Yes, I have no character whatsoever. You're right. Here's you're quote, mate: "many people do that (spit & hock) here in the States." You can besmirch my character all you want, but what you say is simply not true, other than with some bone-headed professional athletes (Dusty Baker comes to mind. I'm sure you don't know him) But I have never...EVER...heard a "hock" in the U.S. like I hear daily in China. Ever.
Selah.
Personal Attacks
Now THIS is what I like: Name Calling.
Anywho, I'm a little confused about this Selah character. A reference to Dusty Baker, whom he calls a professional athlete even though he's a 70 year old manager, but he also uses 'mate'. Who uses the word mate and also knows the name of the former Giants manager? Perplexing.
Although I do have agree that you very rarely here the hocking sound in the states
Oh Lighten Up
Oh come off it, brother. I NEVER said you had no character. You did. Additionally, this is not about you. All I'm saying is that I AGREE with the original poster (and subsequently, you) and you have somehow taken a 'side note' statement and made it out to be my entire statement.
Just like politicians. =)
And if you're using the word 'mate' something tells me you're not a native of the US. Are you currently residing there?
But my original thought stands. Hocking and spitting grosses me out- it's such a shame it's so prevalent in China. I'm going to be a very constantly disgusted female when I make my move for good. =) Maybe I can wear ear plugs!
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There are no problems in life, just opportunities in disguise.
I'm very glad that I have
I'm very glad that I have thoroughly confused everyone. My day is not in vain.
Selah. ;)
(By the way, NJ Darko...Google 'Furman Bisher' and there's your answer.)
...or Hunter S. Thompson
...or Hunter S. Thompson
Hope you're keeping the spit
Hope you're keeping the spit off the beer in New Orleans, Mindi.
Culture
The Chinese have a habit of hiding behind their culture. The usually use the "culture" word when they have been called out on anti social behavior.
Why?... because they do not have a conscious - that is a western concept.
It is face that keeps the social balance in China.
Meaning all actions are weighed up as follows...
Can I steal or lie to that guy?
Hmmmm, what is the risks of getting caught?
None - then I will do it. High - dont want to lose face (I'll get my friend to do it)
Say what?
So basically the idea is that Chinese people try to get away with whatever they can, but this is something that does not occur in the West? Bunk!
True, there is less shame about it in China, but people always get away with whatever they can.
Bill Clinton did this constantly
So did the Enron guys
So does EVERYONE!
People do whatever they can without having someone call them out on it. It's human nature. We're a nasty bunch.
Another never ending war
Historical reasons, it takes generations for the majority of Chinese to become more "civilized", don't you see those slogans and banners posted all around?
china customs and habits and all the rest
now THIS is an interesting find...what a great chat going on here! (I only glanced at the political stuff admittedly..bores me to no end)..but the nitty-gritty stuff about habits and "ignorant foreigner" and anonymous posters and culture and cheating students ...oh, it's just too good to pass by..
so I'll give my two cents...i have lived in china for six or seven years...have not been home (Canada) in more than four...just stayed right here in our little town..married a chinese woman, work daily among the chinese...have learned enough of the language to get by...
observations; pissing in the street...i do it all the time...no where else to do it...have taken a bus across town a few times to crap at a hotel...(my home is too far...) cheating students: taught more than a thousand of them...really...don't agree with it but understand it...(local guy knows why...) outrageous prices...do it myself with private korean students...3 times more than the chinese pay...why?...cause they will pay it...if I could get 5 times more i would...once at the silk market i bought a chess set for 350 rmb...her asking price was 3000 rmb...nevertheless, if i paid 800 for a watch and was happy, who cares...? obviously the chinese vendor was pleased..the buyer seemed to think it was great....let them be...it's not a rip-off...
ignorant foreigner..well, probably somewhat true..but does it really need to be said?...once my wife were watching a phil collings concert on dvd...huge stadium...she said.."the singers must not get paid for that"...i asked "why do you say that?" she replied.." well, everybody has to stand up...there are no chairs"...oookaayyy..Once she asked me why the moon was big and round sometimes and other times was only a slice...I can give you a dozen other examples..Now my point is thus...when i screamed "you stupid ignorant peasant bitch!!!" (out of sheer frustration over countless mindless questions about things i take for granted...like why apples hit the ground when they fall instead of flying into space...and why electricity and water will fry you...or why boiling water will melt a baby's face..)....my witty comment about ignorance gave us a little bit of relationship tension...nor did it do much to improve learning...
now for six years...everyday...every SINGLE day I am asked the same five questions...the foreigners on this page can list them..EVERY day, i am gawked at, laughed at, pointed at...(probably out of curiousity i'm sure)...and little children..bless them...say 'look..a foreignerrrrr"...construction sites practically come to a halt when i walk by....i didn't know "hello" had so many vocal ranges...or why it causes an eruption of laughter among a dozen men...
when i take my baby for a walk, literally dozens of people are grabbing his hands, trying to pick him up....it's probably not a big deal, and maybe i'm just a paranoid dad...but DOZENS of people? Everyday?...Which of course, my baby then has to shove his hands into his mouth...and lick every possible speck of whatnot off them...When he was born..only a week or so old, we had a visitor...a young chinese lady...with a cold that would knock out a grown man...come into our house gagging and coughing and sneezing...I said..'you have a cold..a bad one"..."oh, no problem" she said...and wanted to play with the baby...???
hmmm..well, anyway...one final comment...I have a friend i speak to most days...also a westerner...been here the same amount of time..seems to think he understands the chinese...the chinese this and the chinese that he begins...not neccessarily derogatory...but it just drives me that he thinks he knows so damn much about the place...he knows a little..but people are individuals...i used to think, when first arriving, that i was supposed to shout at waiters..that's what my chinese teacher did...until i met a chinese woman who was polite and kind to everybody..i thought.."wait a minute"...i thought they were all rude...that this is the custom...
just for the record..i ran a bar for three years also...had more than 70 countries visit...(kept record)...best customers overall? Germans...worst?..sorry. Canadians...(the hockey team was great though) but to be fair..in each group were good and bad...and I have some wonderful canadian friends of course...the most polite? chinese...generally...but had one or two bad experiences from too much drink....the craziest? holland....the best spenders? greek....the biggest drinkers? russian...the friendliest? italy...the most well behaved? israel...the rudest? you know
Surprise!
Spitting, pissing and shitting won't immediately hurt you severely....how come nobody talked about driving motorbikes on the pedestrian way?
Back to the hygiene
"Spitting, pissing and shitting won't immediately hurt you severely"
No, not immediately and not severely, but it WILL hurt you. What's the reason I don't want to go out when it rains in China? The thought that all the spit, piss and shit is being washed out and YOU'RE WALKING THROUGH IT. The Chinese "potty train" their kids by holding them over a trash can or gutter and then making that whistling sound. Why can't they hold the kid over a toilet and make the sound there? Why? Why does it have to be in a public place where you can't wash it away? Even if it's not a matter of hygiene, it's still a matter of disrespect for pubic property and the people around you.
Then the spitting. If you seriously produce that much mucous all day, there's something wrong with you and you should see a doctor. Why do you rarely see somebody spitting in western countries? Because spit is one of your personal bodily fluids and western people are taught to be private about their fluids. China is different and people have no qualms swinging their fluids around. I understand that it's part of the culture, but as a western person, I can almost see the bacteria. I can't help but wonder how much Chinese people know about bacteria and how they spread. Because once you realize your basic bacteria facts, personal hygiene (and refraining from spitting) makes very much sense.
Yesterday I went to a bathroom in a big supermarket. There was no toiletpaper or soap provided. Don't Chinese people think that's strange? Don't they want wash their hands after visiting a restroom? Again, do they know about bacteria? Doesn't biology class talk about that?
Are these hygienic differences between China and the west a result of real cultural differences (i.e. the Chinese don't care) or is it a matter of not knowing? Actually, I'm more willing to believe the latter than the first. Who can tell me which one it is?
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