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Speaking Chinese Should Not Impress

Imagine my surprise when on my very first day in China seven years ago several people told me how great my Chinese was. I had never taken a course, and had only been listening to language tapes for three months. The problem, unfortunately, was it took six attempts for me to understand what people were trying to tell me. In Chengdu people just seemed very happy that I was making an effort to speak their language that they were willing to look past the fact that I could barely say anything. And to be honest, it felt good anyway.

It doesn't take long to figure out how low the bar of expectations is set for language in China. Perhaps it is the "soft bigotry of low expectations," a phrase coined by political speechwriter Mike Gerson a few years back. The impact of this instantaneous back-patting is that many foreigners are quick to self-congratulate, and I make no qualms about putting myself on this list. When you've put time and effort into something, and I have at this point, and people tell you that you're good, it's easy to believe them—and to get complacent about your accomplishments.

What bothers me is how easy it is to reach this point—and to allow modest achievement to turn into arrogance. How many times have you heard or seen otherwise reasonable people suddenly break into Chinese at parties and expect someone to toss them a biscuit as if they’ve performed a trick? Can you imagine if someone anticipated gushing praise for putting English sentences together in the US? When people make mistakes in the States, Americans are more inclined to tell them to ‘learn the language’ than they are to show encouragement.

And yet I have never heard a single Chinese person tell me "You’re in my country so you should learn my language." So we go on patting ourselves on the back for our ‘amazing’ accomplishments, all the while knowing that local high school students, whom we are inclined to mock for their poor English, actually face a totally different set of standards. We laugh at the Chinglish signs that litter the streets and wonder how people make such obvious mistakes, while we say the stupidest of things ourselves

Perhaps things are changing as more and more foreigners come here speaking good Chinese. In the old days laowai practically expected applause any time they said anything in their second language. Occasionally you still see old China hands use their skills as if they were juggling balls, often unaware that most of the other foreigners around them have similar, if not superior, abilities.

A few months ago a fifty-something business man inserted himself into a conversation between me a foreign woman (married to a Chinese man, incidentally) and a Chinese woman. He told us in his best Putonghua that the traffic was always terrible at that time of day (rush hour!). After a long pause, the Chinese woman finally complimented him on his language abilities, which promptly led to a ten minute explanation on when he had learned it and how.

And I can't really blame the old China hands like my oblivious friend. I have been so trained to anticipate compliments on my Chinese that when they don't come I begin to wonder why they are not impressed. And yet other times when the praise is not forthcoming I actually take that as a compliment as it might mean that people have accepted it as a natural course of action, that the appropriate response is addressing the content of my thoughts, not the method of conveying them. Clearly the language question remains a difficult tightrope in China.

Let's be honest, this is the 800 pound elephant in the room that no expat wants to mention. When it comes to Chinese skills, we get too much praise heaped on us for doing too little, and everyone is so happy to receive the compliments that they happily ignore the reality that our abilities would be considered merely passable in almost any western language.

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disagree

On June 23rd, 2007 Fragile Fred says:

I thought it was absurd when I was in China, and having no chinese skills whatsoever except to ask for a bottle of water or the cheapest beer, to be complimented on my chinese (the few characters I spoke to convey this). Obviously a chinese person complimenting your chinese should be taken with a massive grain of salt. This also means that the Chinese are the anti-french. A slight mispronunciation when asking a french stranger a question can lead your interlocutor to grunt, turn around and walk off (this has happened to me). So I have no idea why you are complaining about the opposite "problem". The key is not to allow yourself to be deluded into thinking your chinese is any good because that is a recipe to stop trying to improve (I am nowhere near even being able to delude myself of this). Unless of course they are really insistent that your chinese is good, in which case it is probably true.

Been in China too long?

On July 6th, 2007 Chuck says:

Maybe you've just lost perspective on being in China. Chinese is a hard language and I doubt your skills are even that good!

being Da Shan is different than being a regular expat in China

On July 7th, 2007 magores says:

Article is correct in that the Chinese will applaud your ability to speak the language even if the only thing you can say is "我是美国人.", and even if you pronounce it horribly. And, article is correct that too many of us expats put too little effort forward.

But... I think Da Shan exists in a different world than most of us. Frankly, he is (you are) TOO famous.

The Chinese believe, rightly or wrongly, that Da Shan speaks good Chinese. It is a belief that self-perpetuates itself.

They say Da Shan speaks good Chinese, because they actually believe he does. They think it, but don't say it, because "Of course he does. He's Da Shan!"

In my case, when someone says my Chinese is good, I tend to categorize the compliment in one of 3 ways:

1) If they don't know me, then I assume they are just being polite. My Chinese ISN'T very good. And, I know it.

2) If it's someone that I know a little (shopkeepers, etc.), then I assume they are simply referring to the progress I have made in the past year and a half.

3) As far as my Chinese friends... The biggest compliment I ever get from them is "不错", which merely means that I said a sentence of more than 6 words, and they actually understood me.

And btw... Da Shan does speak good Chinese... for a foreigner :)

Da Shan

On July 7th, 2007 Pablo says:

I hate Da Shan. Not him personally, but the idea of him. His big hair. His giant head. His goofy grin. His thick Canadian accent.

I hate seeing him on buses selling liquor. I hate seeing him in stores selling Chinese-English dictionaries.

If I saw him on the street I would probably, well probably nothing. But I would WANT to say something nasty.

He might be a nice guy, but I hate him.

And I hate to say it, but it's not just that his Chinese is pretty good, it's very good. He made his name in the 1980s doing cross-talks, which are very hard to do even for Chinese people.

So I hate him, but I'll give him credit. He's like the Tom Cruise of Chinese language.

Screw that!

On July 23rd, 2007 Jason says:

Da Shan is handsome and cool. Canadians are the greatest! You wish one day you could become the great man that is DA SHAN!

true

On July 25th, 2007 Anonymous says:

You're right that a lack of compliments is in itself a compliment. It took me a while to figure this out, but I've found it to be true. I can chat with someone on the phone without them realizing I'm not Chinese, while in person if we're talking in person and I make a mistake, that's when the "Oh you're Chinese is so good" consolation prize is trotted out. The less I get it, the more progress I think I'm making.

As for Da Shan: whatever. He's a mainland thing, apparently. Cross-talk is good for memorization, though.

TC
http://poagao.org

fun article... am hoping i

On July 26th, 2007 Anonymous says:

fun article... am hoping i wasn't the 50 year old dude talking about traffic... I have always felt sorry for ABC friends of mine who can't speak chinese all that well as they never get the positive reinforcement and usually get the "how come your chinese is so bad?". I have had a few taxi drivers say "bu ru DA SHAN" to me and felt a wee bit of envy/dismay syndrome come up, and console myself with the fact that I have never wanted to be paraded around like a monkey in a zoo.

I agree on the lack of compliments observation which thankfully happens often with me, but I for one know that my Chinese hasn't improved much at all in the 30 or so years since I studied it formally, and do know that having done the insane thing of learning Cantonese has done some major damage... oh well.. so the accent imho? ... truly bu san bu si.

Agree

On July 27th, 2007 Anonymous says:

I agree. Every time I open my mouth I get the "你中文怎么说得那么好？", and"你怎么会说中文？". Although I probably speak better than most foreigners, it only takes a "你好" to make most Chinese stunned of impression.

Becoming more proficient in Chinese I have stopped with the "哪里哪里" and starting to tell them "这里不就是中国吗？" (Isn't this China ?) or "在中国说中文有什么了不起的？" (What's so special with speaking Chinese in China?).

I believe that someone should make a blog in Chinese and let the Chinese people know about this, and all the other things we complain about in China.

Compliments are part of Chinese culture.

On August 29th, 2007 Anonymous says:

The Chinese often think it's a little silly how we say "Thank you" for everything. Their equivalent is compliments.

If someone gives you food, the polite thing to do isn't to say "thank you," but to say "this tastes good." When someone helps you, you don't say "thank you," but "you've gone to so much trouble." Even hello, "ni hao" translates to "you good."

I'd take any compliment from the Chinese with a grain of salt, not just compliments on your language ability.

know your Chinese level

On October 7th, 2007 Anonymous says:

If you get a compliment on your Chinese, you are screwing it up. Sorry, you just are.
If you get no compliments and told your tones are wrong, or your grammar needs work, or your accent is off. You know you doing great. Or half way decent.

On another note... Fast food - I always get pissed off when they see me coming and whip out the picture sheet. Are we that dumb that we can't learn the Chinese for spicy chicken burger, fries and a coke? It takes all of 10mins to learn. Yes, the bar is set low and the Chinese keep it low.

However, what I did enjoy was the KFC near the university I attended actually expected a foreigner to speak to them in Chinese! Why? Because it was near the University where we all studied and they had no clue foreigner do not usually know a word of Mandarin.

I'd go another 3 blocks and it's a panic attack when they see a foreigner walking to the counter.
Get that cheat sheet out of my face, haha!!!!!!!

had no clue foreigners do

On October 7th, 2007 Anonymous says:

had no clue foreigners do not usually know a word of Mandarin

I had this explained to me...

On November 27th, 2007 Anonymous (not verified) says:

I had a Chinese friend who's lived in the US for a long time explain this to me after I asked him why I kept getting complimented on my Chinese when I could only speak basic "shopping" Chinese. The compliments usually came in English, which I thought was odd as well. I had sort of the same thing happen when I could talk about different Chinese teas, even if only in English (I like Pu Erh).

He said the Chinese expect westerners do not want to learn Chinese, anything about Chinese culture, or even to eat/try Chinese food. He said it was encouragement and like "thanks for showing respect for my culture." I can believe this. I have a British friend that has lived in Hong Kong for almost four years. He hasn't even tried to learn any Chinese and can't even say the name of the street where he lives. He just expects everyone to cater to him and speak English. I can see how after 99 years of that you might get a little excited when someone tries to speak your language.

I did find this preferable to what I get when I try to use the small amount of Japanese I know. Usually women will giggle and think my undoubted butchering of Japanese grammar is sort of cute. Men, on the other hand, act pissed-off I'm even trying. A Japanese friend said westerners that speak Japanese are looked at like talking monkeys. I didn't ask if he meant Chim Chim or Dr. Zaius.

Chinese is not magic

On December 13th, 2007 James (not verified) says:

These points are right on the money. Many expats have to let the idea go that just speaking Chinese will open doors like a magic wand. It doesn't work like that in the long run. Expat's many sound cute speaking any Chinese. If an expat doesn't have basic skills, the Chinese language will only carry but so far. Dashan is a mainly China thing. Dashan is not a product of purely of his own making and he just may be an overall good guy. I think the less praise you get the better your Chinese is as you as natural expected to speak at that level.

James
WLC - Host
worldlearnerchinese.com